WEBVTT 00:00:05.920 --> 00:00:09.920 Mr. Engelmann, you are the managing director who was once again launched 00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:13.920 by the Berlin City Cleaning Service in 2019 with the aim of reusing many 00:00:13.920 --> 00:00:17.800 items that are still usable in themselves and would otherwise have 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:20.800 ended up at the recycling centers in Berlin. 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:23.520 What actually bothered you about recycling? 00:00:23.520 --> 00:00:26.360 That is already ecologically responsible. 00:00:26.360 --> 00:00:29.360 You can then reuse the raw materials. 00:00:29.520 --> 00:00:30.200 Absolutely right. 00:00:30.200 --> 00:00:33.240 Of course, recycling is also ecological and responsible. 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:35.800 That's true, and I don't want to contradict that at all. 00:00:35.800 --> 00:00:39.560 But if you look at the waste hierarchy, there are points before 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.560 the topic of recycling, namely waste avoidance. 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:44.880 Logically, this is always the best thing if waste is not produced in the first 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:46.040 place. 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.520 This cannot always be done and accordingly 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.520 the topic of fish trap or reuse comes up. 00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:55.040 And that's exactly what they specialize in. 00:00:55.040 --> 00:00:56.480 Why all this? 00:00:56.480 --> 00:01:00.480 You just saw how many great items were handed in every day at 00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:04.400 the recycling centers of the Berlin city cleaning service. 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:06.560 And has the question been asked? 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:11.160 It's just too bad to destroy it all or, as you rightly say, recycle it. 00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:12.640 There's a lot more to it. 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:17.600 In other words, to return the articles, the products, to the cycle. 00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:21.960 And to come back to the question, the topic of soot naturally 00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:25.960 saves energy, raw materials and water, which would be needed 00:01:25.960 --> 00:01:30.680 for the production of a new product, including a recycled product. 00:01:30.880 --> 00:01:34.040 And accordingly, the topic should always be 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:37.040 prioritized higher than the topic of recycling. 00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:42.320 Can you describe this somewhat vividly for the participants in our course? 00:01:42.320 --> 00:01:45.360 If I now give you a piece of furniture that is 00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:48.360 still usable, let's say. What happens to it? 00:01:48.360 --> 00:01:50.920 Is it a new owner? 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:52.160 Finds? 00:01:52.160 --> 00:01:53.640 That's exactly what it's all about. 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:55.840 We have different paths like such a piece of furniture and then we are sometimes 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:56.960 reached. 00:01:56.960 --> 00:02:00.960 So one way is completely correctly said in one of the basket remember better 00:02:00.960 --> 00:02:05.000 help to hand over the piece of furniture, with the note that it may be used again. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.680 The legal is always important. 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:10.080 We can't just help ourselves to bulky waste and say we can still sell this and 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:11.800 that and that. 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:15.040 There must always be the consent of the person 00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:18.040 who is leaving, the person giving it up. 00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:21.560 Then there is the possibility that you can drop off directly on site or again. 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.680 We are a kind of Amazon Regius H stays, where we 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:27.680 also accept many, many goods here on site. 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:32.280 And the third variant that we offer is that we actually pick up from 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.720 households, the counterpart to bulky waste collection, so to speak, which BSR 00:02:35.720 --> 00:02:37.440 logically offers. 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:38.360 In the group. 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:42.360 We are then serious, pick up the furniture at home, 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:46.080 sometimes free of charge, depending on the value. 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.960 What happens then? The whole thing is brought to our warehouse. 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:52.720 Well, look at the back of our furniture, clean it, do small cosmetic repairs, 00:02:52.720 --> 00:02:54.600 polish it. 00:02:54.600 --> 00:02:57.600 This will certainly remove one or two scratches. 00:02:57.600 --> 00:03:00.160 You have to say very clearly, depending on the value. 00:03:00.160 --> 00:03:04.160 So if we have an Ikea shelf, then it will give us a maximum of 00:03:04.160 --> 00:03:08.160 30 40% of the original price and of course you differentiate 00:03:08.160 --> 00:03:12.160 again according to the quality or the traces of use that have 00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:16.160 already been left behind with higher-quality furniture, 00:03:16.160 --> 00:03:20.560 which of course then brings back in the higher sales price. 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.520 Logically, the topic of business administration always plays a role here. 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:25.640 Use effort to weigh things up. 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:29.640 A little more effort will certainly be put 00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:33.640 into it, so that we can then present a used, 00:03:33.640 --> 00:03:39.160 but still very very charming product here in our mall. 00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:43.160 And the nice thing about it is that it is not an off-the-shelf 00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:47.160 piece of furniture, but it is very, very individual pieces of 00:03:47.160 --> 00:03:50.560 furniture that you can no longer get on the free market. 00:03:50.920 --> 00:03:54.240 The social trend of sharing is also going right back there, towards individuality, 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:55.920 towards charm. 00:03:56.040 --> 00:04:00.040 And that's exactly where we come into play and can offer that 00:04:00.040 --> 00:04:03.920 and now you've already mentioned business administration. 00:04:03.920 --> 00:04:07.680 Of course, I'm also interested in whether the whole thing, which 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.680 doesn't sound so uncomplicated, is worth it at all. 00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:14.600 You are actually now building a parallel value chain to what BSR 00:04:14.600 --> 00:04:17.600 is actually doing for Berlin's city cleaning. Up. 00:04:18.960 --> 00:04:20.080 Does that help? 00:04:20.080 --> 00:04:23.120 Or is it actually subsidized for that in the end? 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:24.880 Exactly. 00:04:24.880 --> 00:04:28.320 So the real question is yes or the economic question behind it is not always 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:31.320 just this topic and that's what they probably want to get at. 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.360 Less waste then, but reuse creates added value overall 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:38.360 And is that then also economical in the end? 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.280 Yes, I can answer the question: It is indeed a parallel value chain, if you 00:04:42.280 --> 00:04:44.200 will. 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:49.120 However, not necessarily, because it often contradicts the core business. 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:50.040 Why? 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:53.560 We are just shifting the activities within the waste 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:56.560 hierarchy a bit, as I said in the first question. 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:00.560 And then the question arises as to whether to prepare the whole thing 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:04.880 efficiently and in a process-wise clean manner and to offer it to the customer. 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.480 And the whole thing shows that. 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:10.960 So the crux of the whole thing is to create a system, 00:05:10.960 --> 00:05:13.960 to create processes, to create standards. 00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:17.960 That we have guardrails in the team that you can quickly 00:05:17.960 --> 00:05:21.960 use as a guide and that certain throughput times, as 00:05:21.960 --> 00:05:27.320 they say in retail, are kept short, so that we can then also be economical. 00:05:27.320 --> 00:05:33.240 I started here with the vision of once again leading the red and the black. 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.440 This is also the very clear mandate of the Supervisory Board and we are on a 00:05:36.440 --> 00:05:38.040 very, very good path. 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.040 Exactly, because we are attacking procedurally. 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:45.040 Because we are looking at how we might get better products, 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.520 how we can build up cooperation in addition to the products that come from 00:05:48.520 --> 00:05:50.280 höfen. 00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:54.280 Because this is also a way of waste avoidance 00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:58.120 or resource conservation, if we receive 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.120 items before they are even handed in. 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.840 And if you think a little more broadly with what we offer here, what we offer 00:06:03.840 --> 00:06:05.240 here. 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.560 We also see ourselves a bit as a place of experience for the circular economy. 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.560 We offer workshops, we offer guided tours, all as a 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:18.200 complete package, that can pay off, but then all processes have to mesh properly. 00:06:18.200 --> 00:06:19.680 That has to work. 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:23.640 And yes, in the end, and that's the most logical thing of all. 00:06:23.640 --> 00:06:26.440 That's why we're also striving for the second or third location. 00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:30.440 Of course, the whole thing scales much better if you have several locations, 00:06:30.440 --> 00:06:34.440 because then the overhead costs are transferred to different stores or 00:06:34.440 --> 00:06:38.120 different stores and then the whole thing becomes much more attractive. 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.520 So in the end, it can definitely be economically viable. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:47.480 And this also at wage conditions that are absolutely common on the market. 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:52.160 Will it be a retail tariff just like in the Lidl, Aldi or the other big players. 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:56.160 This is quite challenging in parts, but if you approach the points I just 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.440 mentioned in a somewhat structured way, it is possible. 00:06:59.440 --> 00:07:05.400 Yes, and that's why I'm absolutely convinced of and very, very optimistic. 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:08.400 What exactly we will have achieved at the end of next year. 00:07:09.320 --> 00:07:11.600 But I think that's a very important point. 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.600 Perhaps this is for sustainability as a whole, that it is not 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:20.520 such a niche or enthusiast project, but that it also works economically. 00:07:20.520 --> 00:07:23.840 Just like our economy usually works. Me. 00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:29.280 Now it is such a single project, so it is a very sympathetic 00:07:29.280 --> 00:07:33.280 and interesting showcase project demonstration of the 00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:37.280 circular economy, but also certainly in such a way that 00:07:37.280 --> 00:07:41.280 only a small part of the objects that circulate in Berlin 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:45.800 as a whole, that are still usable, can be used to save them again. 00:07:46.200 --> 00:07:49.680 Then there are classifieds and neighborhood platforms, there are also a 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.440 few private second-hand shops. 00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:55.280 But most of it probably ends up in the end: garbage today or in recycling, 00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:57.200 right? 00:07:58.520 --> 00:08:01.520 Well, I would like to go into the idea of the point you just mentioned: the topic 00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:03.040 of profitability. 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.040 This simply has to be understood, also by the customers, and we have to 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.080 differentiate external communication, and this is very important to me. 00:08:11.080 --> 00:08:12.240 We are not a social department store. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:16.840 A social department store receives exactly this subsidy that you mentioned. 00:08:16.840 --> 00:08:21.400 And sometimes we have to generate our income through the price. 00:08:21.400 --> 00:08:22.480 That cannot be changed. 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.120 And there are also one or the other understandably who criticize 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:29.120 that we are far too expensive in one or the other product. 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:32.800 Certainly, colleagues here in the team make mistakes from time to time. 00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:35.800 That's human, that's part of it and that will always happen. 00:08:35.920 --> 00:08:39.160 Nevertheless, we certainly don't have to compete in 00:08:39.160 --> 00:08:42.160 terms of pricing, in quotation marks with um um um. 00:08:42.760 --> 00:08:47.840 Now to the second topic, waste avoidance. 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.840 In the end, I don't want to download every additional second hand classifieds 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:55.160 as competition, but a bit as a supplement to the offer. 00:08:55.160 --> 00:08:59.760 Because you are absolutely right, not everything can be avoided by far. 00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:02.800 Of course, there is also garbage, which is garbage and it is not worth thinking 00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:04.320 about reuse. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:07.920 This must also be said very clearly for hygiene reasons or other points where the 00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:09.760 effort would simply be far too great. 00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:13.040 Nevertheless, to give a few figures: We have about 65,000 tons of bulky waste in 00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:14.720 Berlin. 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.760 We have around 14,000 tonnes of electronic waste at the recycling centres 00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:19.280 every year. 00:09:19.280 --> 00:09:23.280 And if, on the other hand, the number of people we 00:09:23.280 --> 00:09:27.280 sold in the year was 25, because of about 600 tons, 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:31.280 the rest of the question is yes, of course there are 00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:36.480 many, many items in the difference that could also have been reused. 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:40.480 But for that you need capacities, for that you need structures and 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.480 that is a long-term project and also a long-term long-term corporate 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:48.480 orientation not only of the Berlin city cleaning, but above all of 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:51.800 the entire group and, above all, the social mindset. 00:09:52.160 --> 00:09:54.360 And accordingly, we are already trying a lot. 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.360 We offer neighbourhood days, where we exchange 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:02.360 in the neighbourhoods and offer markets that 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:06.360 give away so that a lot of things logically go 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.920 to the man and woman, because the potential 00:10:09.920 --> 00:10:12.920 is still really, really big. 00:10:12.920 --> 00:10:16.920 And if we want to achieve a real circular economy, as the 00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:20.920 European Union says in the Green Deal, for example, then 00:10:20.920 --> 00:10:24.120 it actually means complete recycling, and 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.120 we are still extremely far along for that. 00:10:27.280 --> 00:10:29.360 We are still extremely far from that. 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:32.080 As nice as projects like you are. 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:33.520 What is so from your point of view? 00:10:33.520 --> 00:10:37.520 What are the two or three crucial points so that we can really 00:10:37.520 --> 00:10:41.840 get there in this direction and really scale up what they are doing? 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.080 From my point of view, that's putting it relatively simply. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.920 The implementation is of course unbelievable. 00:10:48.920 --> 00:10:52.840 So from my point of view, the economy is definitely still optimized for producing, 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.800 buying, using, throwing away. 00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:58.680 This topic, which has come up more and more in recent years, has sometimes not 00:10:58.680 --> 00:11:00.440 existed to this extent. 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:04.280 And many products are not designed at all to be used in the long 00:11:04.280 --> 00:11:07.280 term, especially in the electrical sector. 00:11:07.280 --> 00:11:09.320 Hammer glued housing. 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:13.400 We have various spare parts, then we also have the topic of software support. 00:11:13.400 --> 00:11:16.160 We can look at a large American provider. 00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:19.240 After certain years, the software simply stopped supporting it. 00:11:19.520 --> 00:11:23.520 How do we then want to use the whole article 00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:27.400 sensibly for several more years? 00:11:27.400 --> 00:11:31.400 So I basically have to change something and then 00:11:31.400 --> 00:11:35.400 unfortunately it's like that, you know, I know that 00:11:35.400 --> 00:11:39.360 buying new is sometimes simply cheaper than a repair 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.360 or a preparation of one on an article. 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.240 In the interview at the beginning, we have already outlined what such 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.240 a cycle looks like, from dispensing to processing to sales. 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.600 We have ideas, we have logistics, we have personnel costs and many other 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:55.520 entrepreneurial costs. 00:11:55.520 --> 00:11:59.760 I have to wear it somewhere and so we need a certain price. 00:11:59.760 --> 00:12:03.760 And if, then just new, new products from the Asian market 00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:07.760 can be offered for money, where we can't keep up with a used 00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:12.120 article, then the whole thing is logically also uneconomical. 00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:15.720 From the point of view of the topic of the review thoughts. 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.840 That is certainly a point. 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:22.160 And yes, in the end it's the social mindset. 00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:24.920 We still needed the topic. 00:12:24.920 --> 00:12:28.920 It's rather a bit grubby flea market image and you have to 00:12:28.920 --> 00:12:32.920 work on it, so that you can find department stores through 00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:37.600 clean, handy used cars, there is certainly a big player on the market. 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.960 That the image of the topic of second-hand reviews is simply 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.960 upgraded, so that all social classes can find access to it and it 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:49.960 is also perfectly normal to say yes, I'm going shopping there 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:53.880 today and don't give to the big furniture players or clothing players, but buy my 00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:55.880 things second-hand. 00:12:55.880 --> 00:12:58.880 And I think that's very, very important. 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:04.160 This only works if the topic is approached from different areas. 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.440 Yes, Mr. Engelmann, Managing Director of Ernst Meyer, thank you 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.440 very much for the interview and it is a very exciting innovation 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.440 project and the very important question of how we can change the 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:22.520 common practice in the breadth of our economy with such innovation projects. 00:13:22.520 --> 00:13:26.120 They only take up again late in a later chapter and discourse. 00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:28.720 Thank you very much! With pleasure.